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tv   The Cycle  MSNBC  February 13, 2013 12:00pm-1:00pm PST

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>> >> road trip. president obama takes his message to the people. >> occur we get it done in spite of congress. the guest spot to handicap the second term agenda. >> they said the president lacks the guts to deal with his own party. isn't that like the sky calling the ocean blue? >> we now know marco rubio can hold a bottle, but did his message hold water? >> watergate part two. take it from crystal ball. if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. >> did i say that?
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the state of the union is on the road. the president is bringing his state of the union promises straight to the people less than 15 hours after addressing a joint session of congress. barack obama is onna i three-day road trip to bring home the themes he laid out last night. back at the white house after focusing on manufacturing in the middle class in north carolina. >> the true engine has been the middle class. three things we should ask. number one, how do we bring more jobs to america. number two, how do we equip people with the skills they need to do the jobs? number three, how do we make sure that once they have a job, it leads to a decent living. >> that is the same message we heard last night to bring manufacturing jobs back to the u.s. and trade the workers for the positions. the road trip itself matches the
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it deserves a vote theme. instead of fighting congress himself, he is trying to enlist the country and pressure them to at least vote on the big issues. job creation, and gun control. looking at you, speaker boehner. we can't go off the coverage. thanks for being here. >> my pleasure. >> looking back at this speech, i guess in the run up to state of the unions, we say they talk for an hour and nobody remembers anything they say. >> sometimes for a lot more than an hour. >> bill clinton is not there anymore. >> not mentioning names. >> did you hear anything that will stand the test of time? we might be talking about 10 or 20 years from now? >> anybody who remembers the speech will remember they deserve a vote. both the benefit and the risk to a president in using a line like that. 1941, franklin roosevelt gave an
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address to congress, state of the union in which it was interesting. he denounced a lot of opponents saying accusers of hitler, but all anyone remembers is the four freedoms from one speech and freedom of religion. what he wanted to do was to convey not only the four freedoms, but to say we are fighting a war against the accusers of hitler to achieve those four freedoms. all people remember is that line. >> thinking about the republican response from marco rubio, it strikes me that it's a statement from him and where the republican party is right now a few months after a loss at the polls. i wonder how you compare to what you heard and what it says about where the party now is with where other parties have been a few months after losing to a
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reelected president. the democrats with bush or reagan got reelected. where do you think they are right now relative to other parties in this position? >> what they are doing and marco rubio reflected that, there is going to be a struggle. it's not as large as it was in 1964 after the gold water defeat or the democrats after 1972, but last night was one of the opening volleys in the battle that you will see between the conservative wing of the republican party and what is thought of as the modern plan. >> back tow obama for a second. he seemed rhetorically to signal a message and a call for a smarter, leaner government. he talked about bureaucracy reform and trimming bureaucracy. gone was the message of you didn't build that, the government helped you.
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and the government is not the solution to every problem. there were a lot of policies with big government solutions and taking that message alone, is it typical in a state of the union address to have such a jarring new message that you unveil and does that generally get followed by real policy change? >> i guess i would see it as less of a new message after that. if you look at what president obama said in the inaugural about government on the in american society and contrast that with what was said when he was sworn in. that's the problem am you can look at them as book ends. one say statement and the other a response. what was said last night and what the president said as an inaugural. >> that's interesting as book ends. i think you are right about that.
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i wonder if you can compare the boldness. policy agenda that was laid out in the speech last night versus presidents past. one of the criticisms is his agenda was small board. i didn't see it that way. the increase in the minimum wage and universal pre-k, immigration, guns, infrastructure invest: these are big ideas and i was wondering how it compares. >> after the election, barack obama said he got the overreaching in the second term. he did not want to set himself up for saying a lot of things. you know one thing that johnson wanted was a voting rights bill and he didn't think the time was right. then came the violence that selma where americans were disgusted and they said we shall overcome. that's a different issue and a different time. that's what the president was
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trying to do with gun control. >> part of the theater of the state of the union evening is that the opposition party doesn't stand and applaud for almost anything that the president talks about and i know both parties do it, but the republican parties had a critical moment. when you have not standing for things like hay quality education and paycheck fairness for women, it hammers home the party of no brand that is not working. where did the tradition come from? does it have any effectiveness at all? >> the most important is television. everyone knows they may be on camera and if you are clapping if are a line in the president's speech and you are a republican, that might be taken as an endorsement. both parties tend to enter on the cautious side and you are right that the a occasions are a rule. >> you can look at the past and
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the last time a republican party faced a reelected president that was a congress led by newt gingrich with bill clinton and there was a shift from the republican posture in the second term and impeachment not with standing, you had the health insurance program and you had real legislative progress. do you think there is a parallel and you expect them to be more legislatively cooperative or more of the same? >> my guess would be no and you have to go on the history and the fact that also what is difference is that the dems hold one house of congress and they are slightly in a more strong position. >> thank you for joining us. up next, is it him? investigators working to confirm that the man who led to a frenzied manhunt is dead. the latest out of california is next. the lest for february 13th, 2013. i'm a conservative investor.
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a wallet with a california driver's license bearing the name christopher dorner has been found in the rubble of the cabin authorities surrounded yesterday in an attempt to bring an end to the six-day manhunt for the former cocop and military man who declared war on the lapd. a charred body has been found, but it will take days before they can be certain if it's dorner. this strange sad story seemed to have come to an end, but not before four people were killed including the daughter of a police captain and officers who tried to confront him yesterday.
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on the scene for days and joins us now, what's the latest? >> reporter: right now the coron coroner's office is examining the remains and no word on when they might be able to make an identification. the authorities are assuming or seem to be acting as if it was christopher dorner. this was straight out of a movie. he was surprised by two women where he was holed up over the weekend and fled in one of the vehicles and wrecked that vehicle and stole another one at gunpoint and wrecked that one. ran into the woods in the san bernardino area and the deputies followed the footprints through the snow to a second cabin where he was holed up. there was a shootout with police with the deputies and one was kill and another seriously wounded. then they tried to get in. they broke a window and threw in tear gas and warned him and
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asked him to come out. when there was no response, they started using a bearcat to break down the walls to get in. at that point according to law enforcement, they heard a single gunshot inside and a fire broke out. not clear yet how that fire broke out. they let it burn. they didn't want to go inside because they were not sure what was inside. they thought ammunition might be inside which explodes and goes off when it heats up, but at the end of it, they did find a body late last night and the coroners are examining that today and as that is going on, in riverside the funeral is going on for one of the riverside policemen killed on thursday believed to be one of christopher dorner's four victims. >> dramatic story. thank you. let's turn to don clark, former special agent in charge of the new york fbi. there is an extra special challenge that we talked about
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with chasing dorner for the lapd and the related bureaus in that he's a man with great military training and great police training. they had to worry about extra things. what's the challenge when you are chaying somebody who knows your tactics and is expert in them. >> you put it on the market there. he is someone that is well-trained. having all of that training and so forth, what the organizations have to do in this case and the police officers did a good job in trying to protect them. they have to start to look at this now. yes, she one of us. for the citizens and everybody around, put whatever activities they need to to stop it or try to stop it then. >> of the other elements of this case was in his facebook manifesto. dorner said he expected to die. he was prepared for his own death. how did that complicate a
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manhunt and investigation. >> clearly it does complicate the situation when you get that information that someone has made that point that they intend to die. what it tells you is that anything could happen. what the law enforcement entities have to do and i think they did a good job, they have to take that part of the situation and look at it as one set and still look at number one, protecting the citizens and number two, trying to bring this guy in safely. . >> looking at the images yesterday, i couldn't help but think back to waco in 1993 and the initial week of that, there were conspiracy theories that strung up and how do we know that koresh was in there and was this a decoy and were there decoy bodies?
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do you think there is a potential for that talk to start up again here? how personality is it that they are able to establish conclusively that this is his body? >> you will always have a -- thank goodness it's a small amount of people who will tend to want to go in that direction that you mentioned and you are right that people do take on those things as if no, that's not him and he is still around someplace. we trust law enforcement and they are trained. we are going to follow the legal law as it should be and make sure that we get the right information on and not really worry about those people who bring that on as long as we have the facts are accurate. >> some of the things we were surprised to see unfold throughout this case was that a number of people were rooting dorner on. that seemed bizarre to a lot of us. i don't know if you can speak to this, but have you had experience with that as part of
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this around the investigation and how does that complicate things if at all? >> i guess i had an experience with that type of thing. surely there people that want to take on the poor guy, if you will or the good guy that they might call him. whatever the case may be. the law enforcement component cannot allow itself to become overwhelmed with that type of activity. just keep doing the appropriate things that we know to do. they have the information. they have to protect the citizens and cannot let that type of information come in from a very small group of our society to cause someone else to be injured or killed. >> i notice through the situations they seem to be using the media as if they knew he was listening to them through the media, saying certain things and not saying others. they saw that with the d.c. sniper.
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sending messages to him to try to speak to him. how do you deal with that when you not just use the military tactic, but media strategy? >> you do. you have to have a plan. law enforcement is sophisticated now. we had psychologists and so forth that helps us to deal with the sprnlt traits and the types of things they may look for. what you don't want to do here is get your investigation bogged down worrying about what that small entity or group is trying to do instead of trprotecting o citizens and apprehend this person one way or the other. >> all right. don clark. thank you very much. >> coming up, the president's recurring row freezing rain to congress. send me something to sign. the man who tells it to us
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straight. the governor ed rendell is in the guest spot next. [ male announcer ] in blind taste tests, even ragu users chose prego. prego?! but i've been buying ragu for years. [ thinking ] i wonder what other questionable choices i've made? [ club scene music ] [ sigh of relief ] [ male announcer ] choose taste. choose prego. i'm maria, and i have diabetic nerve pain. i felt like my feet were going to sleep. it was like pins and needles sticking in your toes and in your feet. it progressed from there to burning
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the official line from the white house is they are happy with the reception to last night's state of the union. the kickoff to the three-day road trip is say way to amplify aspects of that agenda. kristen welker is on the north lawn where the president just returned. the post state of the union road trips don't always work. we had clinton on deficit reduction. what makes president obama think this will be different? >> steve, good afternoon. white house officials say this is really a conditionation of the conversation that president obama started with congress and the american people last night. i would say more brudly, this is really a key part of the strategy in terms of trying to get the policies passed through congress. in this instance, you have president obama out today and
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talking about investing in new manufacturing projects. new infrastructure anding in ad that, childhood education and stiffer gun control laws. as a way to pressure congress, get this passed in the court of public opinion first. that is what we expect president obama to do not just this week, but the coming weeks. tomorrow he will be in georgia. on friday he will be in chicago. again, talking about these key aspects of the plans and policies that he unveiled last night. i can tell you that he ticked off a number of goals that he would like to see happen and a lot of them poled very well. a lot of skepticism about this is all going to get paid for. the president said this will all be paid for and we are expecting to see the details in his budget
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that will be released in the next several days. as of right now, a big question mark about how the larger proposals are going to be paid for. we expect president obama not just to be out on the road this week, but the coming weeks as he tries to get the policies passed. gun control could be the most difficult. a lot of resistance to that in congress. >> thanks for that. in the guest spot is former pennsylvania governor nbc news analyst and all-around the democratic analyst ed rendell. thank you very much for joining us. one thing i would like to focus on was the surprise element president obama called for a hike in the minimum wage to $9 an hour. it sounds like a hot although he campaigned on 9.50 a few years ago. that would be 15% less in real terms than minimum wage was in 1968 to put it in context. he is calling for $9 an hour and
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indexing it to the cost of living. since we have republicans saying no, we don't want to do this, does this have a chance of happening first to $9 and second the indexing? >> i'm going to launch a protest, but i don't have a bottle of water. >> dry situation. >> i want to get that on the record. it's unfair. >> i'm not running for president. >> grievance noted. >> the answer to the question is it's part of the president's overall strategy that frame the entire economic issue in terms of fairness. if you can get a vote, it was interesting with guns. he said it deserves a vote. if we can get a vote on the house floor on the $9 minimum wage and indexing, i think it
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would pass. the republicans in many districts like the suburban philadelphia would be very hard pressed to vote for that. the question is will any of this reach the floor of the house of representatives with guns? the emphasis is on they deserve a vote. that's a great strategy. even on assault weapons. the congressman and suburban philadelphia. i am not sure i want to cast a vote against assault rifles against high capacity magazines against the background checks. i think the question is, how much of this is the president going to be able to get to the floor? if you could get minimum wage to the floor, it passes. my guess is it won't get to the floor. he is framing the issue very, very well. of course the big test remains what's going to happen to the
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debt. i am interested to see what the president is proposing on the health care entitlements and it will be interesting. it can reduce spending as much as simpson bowles. i'm interested to see what the details are. >> the 102-year-old woman who waited hours to vote in florida, a lot of people did. you think that a bipartisan commission that wants to improve the voting experience in america would be a no brainer. studies show that these problems with votings hurt democrats more than they hurt republican voters. we are probably not going to see voting reform before 2016. even though the president repeatedly said this is a really important initiative. >> it's interesting. again, i generally agree with that proposition. if you are governor snyder and running for reelection and you
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might have a tough battle in 2014. somebody puts that proposal in. do you want to be against it? do you want to be against it and worry about the backlash? i actually think all the tactic that is the republicans formulated in the 2012 election actually hurt them. i think they increased democratic turn out in ways that may not have happened without the efforts to suppress the vote. >> governor, i want to go back to gun control. i was surprised so hear so many satisfied customers today. the gun control crescendo was rousing, but he didn't ask for much. he didn't demand universal background checks or banning high capacity magazines. he just asked for a vote, as you said. the big ask was for a vote. he also said you can vote no. if you are mike bloomberg, for
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example, is that a satisfying ask on gun control? >> up until he said you can vote no, it was a good strategy. it's a good strategy. if they have to vote, you know suburban philadelphia. you are mike fitzpatrick. the overwhelming amount of people want high capacity magazines restricted to no more than ten bullets. what do you do if there is a vote. you can't worry about john boehner. he will not help you get reelected. you have to vote to limit high capacity magazines. you might even have to vote to limit assault weapons. i think the strategy is great by saying you can vote no. i thought the strategy was great. look, it's time for us, for the progressives to be pragmatic. i want that stuff passed. i'm not looking for emotional or
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moral victories. i'm looking to to see a ban or significant ban passed. if we can get the vote, that's our best chance. i'm fascinated to see what those republicans in moderate areas do even with redistricting. i'm fascinated to see. >> and governor, you were in charge of a large and complicated state. almost every area you can almost. climate change and immigration and guns and election reform and taxes and medicare. you can't obviously get all of these things accomplished. you have experience, but if you were the president how would you order in terms of priority. >> first there is no question. the overriding issue in this country is it do something
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significant about the dead. that means serious entitlement reform. a lot of our base doesn't want to hear and i debated that on the show with a couple of you. i think we have to do that. that was my only defender. >> we are here for you. >> we have also got the president dead right. there were so many things in the tax code that has to be changed. for a hedge fund guys to carry forward is an absolute disgrace that produces real dollars. he has to get that done number one. some form of that has a chance to get done if the president is willing to lead on entitlement we form. immigration is the easiest and we will get and it won't be easy to get a comprehensive bill before the summer is out. i think the president will win a partial victory and get certain universal background checks and might get high capacity magazin
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magazines. that's three. does he guilty infrastructure? i just testified in front of the committee and the republicans all said almost every republican and there were 40 members in the room, almost each one of them said they believe they should be spending on infrastructure. the devil is in the details, but he could get it. if he was willing to bend on manager, he could get a fairly decent comprehensive energy bill. education and early childhood polls so well. i give the president credit for saying this is what i want. this is what's good for the country. let's go for the whole enchilada. let's run the tape. if you go for six or seven things, maybe you get two or three, but that's more than if you went for one or two. >> we had the debate and you and steve had the debate and they called you treasonous. we just disagree on these ideas. >> i didn't call you treasonous.
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the import of what you said was treasonous. >> no! >> all i said is if you want to sit there and raise the medicare eligibility age, you will have a fight on your hand with the democratic party. whether we agree or not. >> not with standing the fact that when medicare was passed, the average life expectancy was 67. now it's 79. >> back then the average overall may be going up, but the average life expectancy for blue collar workers for the working poor is not going up. lawyers are living longer. >> good job. i am glad you brought it back up. >> you said carve out. >> you are forgetting carve outs. >> you said you wanted medicare for all. the way to get to medicare for all is by raising the eligibility age. >> now that the president ruled it out.
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>> he didn't rule out cpi. >> no. that's the story to watch in the weeks ahead. what will be on the table for entitlements. i will be back for a fun discussion. there will be no name calling. i look guard to doing it. >> next time i have one demand. water. >> the governor's spring. >> ed rendell, good to see you. up next, i am feeling a little parched and i want to make this joke today. here we go.
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scandal. heaven forbid a guy take a sip of water. paul ryan can relate. his advice to rubio, try a cough drop. anyway, i digress. the real story from the rebuttal is that rubio did a great job offering a counter point to the state of the union. he even handled the water bottle by poking fun of himself on twitter. for all the past flops from the left and the right, the opposition responds as an important part of the national dialogue. i have a feeling i'm in the minority, but rubio was the best. . >> better than jindal. >> i really liked the speech on substance and the delivery. i thought he was empathetic and he had a soft touch that was important to him. to come out and speak from a
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personal place deep inside and seem like a normal guy. one of his best lines was i don't oppose your plans because i want to protect the rich. i oppose your plans because i want to protect my neighbors. it was an intimate message. being non-combative and strongly worded was the right tact to take. i did have criticism. we talked about my rule against referring to obama when you are talking about what conservative principals and policies can work. there was too much backward looking stuff. remember when obama did this? i don't know that that's as effective. you can refer to policies that haven't worked and if being a response to the president who had just spoken ten minutes earlier, i get it. i hope we do less of that in the future and maybe use more of a positive forward looking message of here's why conservative
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policies are great. otherwise two thumbs up, marco rubio. i thought he looked good. >> it was an aggressive speech and really totally out of touch with the whole idea of smaller government. >> par didn't like it? i am shocked. >> the big government is the only problem. i benefitted personally from government programs, but big government is the program. he talked about obama's obsession with raising taxes and all the policies are paid for. >> not how. >> we want smarter government and not bigger government. who is he talking to? the republican party being like clint eastwood talking to a chair with a person who is not -- this is imagined obama that they are criticizing rather than the real obama. what's the point of the gop putting rubio up there if he can't sell immigration. immigration reform. he can talk about it in a touchy feely way and make a case for
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immigration. >> he has been doing a good job. >> they're didn't do it last night and the caucus is divided about it. if he can't sell it, there is no chance. >> i feel he could win arousing 47% of the voters like that. i didn't see anything new there. i want to talk about the infamous water moment. it's silly and totally silly. the guy needed a drink of water, no big deal. i get uncomfortable watching people who are uncomfortable and i was so uncomfortable for him during that speech because i could tell his mouth was dry and he kept touching his face and the water moment. i had to reread the speech because i was so uncomfortable for him. that is a problem because he seemed nervous. he seemed like he wasn't quite ready for that stage. in all seriousness, i asked myself how would chris christie
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handle that water drinking moment? he would have a swagger to it and wouldn't have made a joke and wouldn't have had to do the side thing. it was awkward. there was a sense that he wasn't ready for the big stage. >> now i have five minutes of color on the water as well. >> oh, good! >> we were talking about this yesterday. nobody figured out or mastered the art of the response. stylistically his delivery was pretty good. we can talk about it separately, but it wasn't bad. it really exposed the limitations of that format. after last night, i'm more convinced that the chair at the democratic national committee ought to get together and say we started this tradition under lbj and we tried with all sorts of formats that used to be the videos. the disastrous in 1985. sometimes they would have the leadership like pelosi talking
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to leader reed. saying leader pelosi, why am i called a leader? they tried having governors. they tried everything. you can't compare. the president of the united states going to a jam packed joint session of congress with the pomp and circumstance and whatever you cut to next, it's just not going to compare. this is a dead end for the individuals and we established that. they don't rocket to stardom, they only get made fun of. it's not doing anything for the parties. i don't think the speech that was written before obama even spoke. i don't think either needs to be doing this. >> when republicans in office, no democrat opposition speech. >> they should enjoy it. >> all right. now that you know our thoughts on rubio's response, we want to hear your take as always. his pausing to awkwardly grab a drink of water sparked 9,000 tweets a in a minute.
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i thought he was playing the drinking game. like us on facebook to join the conversation. a part of the president's speech that got applause from both parties. getting on early childhood education. meet folks leading the way straight ahead.
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it's a simple fact. the more education you have got, the more likely you are to have a good job and work your way to the middle class. >> from kindergarten to college, the president put forward new education policies that would benefit our country's students. the truth remains that globally nearly 800 million people can't read at a first grade level. our next guest left his job as a microsoft executive on a mission beyond our borders and founded room to read, america's fastest growing nonprofit to promote worldwide literacy. his efforts helped 7.5 million through the construction of 10,000 schools and libraries. he accomplished an obvious thask that is publishing books and languages that students could actually read. joining us now is john wood from creating room to read, hope in
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the battle for global literacy. >> thanks for having me. >> looking at your life path going from executive to work, what was that spark that led to the transformation? >> i went there as an escape from microsoft. on day two, i met a head master who had a small school with dirt floors and no desks and 450 kids showing up every day. the library is completely devoid of books. 450 kids and no books. how is that? he my life forever. he said in nepal we're too poor to afford education but until we afford education, we're always going to be poor. how would that feel for a parent to realize their child would stay in poverty forever. he asked me for help with the library. i wanted to help. i think about andrew carnegie. he did great things for america
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by building libraries. i figured why not do for the poorest parts of the world do andrew carnegie did for the u.s. >> you're putting libraries all over the world which is an amazing thing. and there's also challenges for girls in third world countries to get educated. and you're attacking that part too. >> we are. at room to read we have gender equality and education. especially with malala and the kids in pakistan and afghanistan in the news so much, 2/3 who are illiterate are girls and women. we have to make sure every girl and boy goes to school. when a girl goes to school, her family is healthier. educated women are twice as likely to vaccinate their children. educated women have lower maternal mortality. you get the ripple effect. especially with girls and women where it not only effects every issue but generation. i'm the product of an educated mother and grandmother who could read to me.
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if every boy and girl in the world could have an educated mother, think how more peaceful it could be. >> i've got to ask the question. i'm wondering what the role of technology will play in your future endeavors here. digital readers certainly have made reading more convenient in first world countries, but they're not any more affordable in third world and developing countries. are there any plans to sort of merge those two together? >> eventually i think there will be as costs come down. but the great thing is it's cheaper. we can set up a library in cambodia for about $5,000 with the support of our corporate partners. 500 kids get reached with that. that's about $12.50 to help each kid. the adults who can work with them.
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so we're not luddites. sometimes low tech is much more cost effective in the long run. >> inpragsal work. thank you so much. >> thank you. up next, professor kornacki on the history that's already been made with the hagel nomination. ♪ [ fishing rod casting line, marching band playing ] [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life. [ whistle blowing ] where do you hear that beat? campbell's healthy request soup lets you hear it... in your heart. [ basketball bouncing ] heart healthy. great taste. mmm... [ male announcer ] sounds good. it's amazing what soup can do. [ boy ] i used to hate eating healthy stuff.ounds good. but badger likes it, so i do too. i used to have bad dreams, but not anymore. [ barks ] i used to be scared of the basement. but when badger's with me, it's not so bad. [ barking ] [ announcer ] we know how important your dog is to your whole family. so help keep him strong and healthy with purina dog chow. because you're not just a family. you're a dog family.
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it is still likely, very likely, that chuck hagel willened up being the next defense secretary but it's hitting snacks. and the latest one looks to set a bad precedent.
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hagel has enough support to win a confirmation vote. his nomination cleared tuesday on a party line vote and not a single senate democrat has opposed opposition to him. since democrats have 55 seats and since two republicans mike joe haines and thad cochran are backing him, that should be that. but it isn't. because hagel is facing a filibuster. meaning he'll first need to come up with 60 votes before he's allowed to have a straight up or down vote on the senate floor. the resistance is coming from republicans. to the right hagel is a traitor. for 12 years he was a republican senator, a rising star in his party that was touted as a vp prospect in 2000. but he turn ond the iraq war and left the senate, refussed to endorse john mccain in 2008 and teamed up with barack obama. now he is the living definition of a republican in name only.
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there are other factors too. lindsey graham is leading the charge against hagel. have made him supremely vulnerable to a conservative primary challenge in 2014. there's no better way to shore up your standing on the right than to torment who wants to join the obama administration. israel is an issue too. over the past generation the republican party has moved farther and farther to the right on middle east issues to the point that its views are virtually indistinguishable. this they hope will entice jewish voters to give up their loyalties. it hasn't happened yet. but it's part of the same effort. what republicans have failed to produce, though, is any information or testimony that shows that hagel is unqualified or unfit to run the pentagon. this is a key point. members of the opposition party do not have to like the white house's cabinet picks. in fact,


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